"The problem with food and growing now is that society is completely built in the wrong way. You're working too long hours, for not enough money. Government stuff aside, food growing needs to be more accessible for people."
Can you summarise your role in our community of Calderdale whether that be professional or vocational?
“Well, for the ease of things I usually say I'm a gardener. But, I like to grow, so I would like to call myself a grower, but at the minute it seems I'm growing for other people, whilst also doing bits of gardening. I think my primary interest is to increase other people's interest in growing, and broaden the perception of how you can grow, even in difficult times and difficult spaces, because the space here is not the easiest to grow in.”
So what does inclusivity and diversity mean in relation to your work vocation, or passion/interest, to you in Calderdale?
“Well, to start with, I'm Polish so that kind of puts me, maybe a little bit outside of the usual bracket of Calderdale, because most people here are British. I suspect. But other than that, I don't know, I feel quite blended in with a place so I don't always think of myself as a foreigner or as somebody from outside that came in for something, because I've been here in England for 13 years. So it's almost like you have to almost blend in. If your accent is a bit off, and sometimes people say 'Oh, your accent is different'. Rarely it happens now, but sometimes I almost forget that I'm not from here because I feel I'm a bit stateless, because I don't feel Polish. Well, I always say to people, "I will never feel Polish enough to be Polish, and I will never be British enough to be British', because no matter what I'll do I've been half of my life there and half of my life here. Even when I go to Poland sometimes I forget the words that I haven't used because I don't speak Polish to anybody here. And sometimes I don't know the words here, so it's almost like you're in the limbo in between. I mean, because I'm an outdoorsy planty person I don't really need to think in English and Polish.”
In terms of food growing, because I think this is really important, food growing is still a little bit of a middle class thing to do. Why do you think that is, and how do you think we can include more people?
“I think there's many reasons why that is. I mean, the first thing is you need the land and I was actually thinking about this, especially now with COVID. Everybody woke up and realized that the allotments should be treasured, and there's not enough of them, and suddenly the waiting lists went sky high. It was always a thing that Gentry had; people who had land had gardens, and they could grow food; they had people to grow food for them on their land. You know if you were poor, you were eating bread crusts or whatever leftovers that you had. Only later, when allotments came on and, this whole post war era, suddenly the ordinary people started growing. Another problem that we have now is that the crap food is so cheap. There's no land, people have no time. I mean if you're working, you know, whatever shift pattern or something, when are you going to do it?”
I don't understand why we haven't got more community supported agriculture projects in Calderdale where consumers collaborate with farmers, and then they provide people's social meet-ups on a farm, whilst producing larger quantities of food to share. Allotments are great, but they are quite limited, and you have to have the knowledge. And you need a support system if you go away, or you can't go to it at some point; you need to be friends with people that can. And a lot of people who are marginalised, don't necessarily have the support system for their day-to-day life nevermind supporting an allotment.
“Yeah, and they don't have a car or the five quid for a day bus return. Then to wait for a bus to take you to the top of the hill, where the allotment might be, or in another town. I mean there's hardly any allotments here, and the access is difficult, often there's no water. I mean, another problem that's really difficult and even for me who's an experienced grower is the weather. Like, you can say whatever you want, but last year it was raining all the time, nothing grew; it was wet, it was sluggy and it was difficult. This year we had a nice heatwave, which then turned into drought, so if you weren't in there two to three times a day to water, your crop was gone. And then it was wet again.
I was talking to my partner and I said, "Look, you know, we can't grow here because, to grow here, you need to have land or an allotment. Okay we'll have an allotment, but then you need to have everything; polytunnel or a greenhouse, because otherwise you don't get the heat, you get the winds, you get the water. I mean how many people can afford to do that. On the other hand, people who have land or have big gardens, and, you know, I'm not saying the rich people have an easy life, they work their ass really, because they sit in front of computers doing some job for something, and they don't have time to enjoy their outdoor space. I mean, the problem with food and growing now is that society is completely built in the wrong way. You're working too long hours, for not enough money. Government stuff aside, food growing needs to be more accessible for people.”
The problem with food and growing now is that society is completely built in the wrong way. You're working too long hours, for not enough money. Government stuff aside, food growing needs to be more accessible for people.
That's why we have to work together more collectively in the valley. This year I've got more food growing than I ever have, but then the success of each crop is limited. I just think maybe we should set up more as this person's a pumpkin grower, this person's a bean grower, and we do more exchange but that has issues. Do you think Community Supported Agriculture is better? You do need enough space, and then you do need things that support the larger organic system like environmental microorganisms, and compost teas, and all those things really, but everyone can chip in to make them and maintain them.
“Absolutely, some of the bigger gardens that I have worked at - the hospice being the last one - that was about an acre, and it was huge, and there was plenty of space for you to grow. They have three huge composting bays on one side and two on the other. Like Red Acre as well; it's really big, small plots in the middle, but there is space to do it. And I think about the valley, because it's in the valley, and you either live on the shady side or on the sunny side, and it's both steep and it's wet, with flooding it's a difficult space to do it, but there are places. It's the access to them that's an issue.”
So, what are the key problems we face in relation to meeting people's differences and including marginalised people in Calderdale?
“I think that the time is the most important, because a lot of people who are marginalised don't probably earn a lot to allow themselves time to have an allotment or grow. So they will be working different shifts patterns, they'll be caring for kids, they often would be from, especially if you're talking about Asian community, they often look after the elders, so they're not just going to finish work and go and chill out because they have a mum to clean and bathe. Whereas a lot of white people can afford care homes or assisted living.”
And actually, that's not about money, it's about a value system.
“It's culture. Other communities won't allow you to take the elders away to care homes or whatever, even in the hospice I remember it was really rare that we would have anyone from ethnic minority groups at the hospice because it's actually shameful. So, we've been so disconnected as white people from the traditional values, from sitting and eating dinner together on the table where the TV is off, from actually reading rather than just coming in and putting TV on. I'm guilty of it too. And it's crushing.”
Well, in terms the Wild Flower Collective, are you trying to engage people of different backgrounds?
“At the minute Wildflower Collective is just the two of us. There's another two ladies who have helped us when the planting was going or weeding or so on. But all of our plans were for March onwards, and then obviously COVID and stuff happened, so we weren't allowed so it was just two of us watering everything, and we removed a lot of dock weeds which previously had been sprayed with glyphosate and we said you can't do it so we'll take them out by hand. So we just watered it, spent hours and hours in spring just watering all these tiny little seedlings when there was the drought. But, we weren't allowed to engage anybody. We wanted to engage mostly parents and people with small kids, because to understand and care about something you need to see it and interact with it. A lot of kids now, they'll see a bug, and they'll scream, and they'll want to try and kill it, because they don't understand the difference between the hoverfly and the wasp for example. They see a stripy thing and they'll scream. So we wanted to introduce a lot of talks and walks around the parks, talk about species, talk about bugs, and then incorporate some art and draw a ladybird or hoverfly or something, so kids get that understanding. It links with what we did with the Aquagarden, and because we work primarily with schools; with primary schools and high schools. And we worked with adult groups, but the interest was really minimal for that. And it may seem terrible to say it, but it's almost a little bit too late for anybody who's 30 or 40 -odd.”
Do you think the problems that we're facing have changed or expanded since our recent COVID-19 crisis?
When you're standing in the queue now, COVID - massive queues everywhere, you look at the people in the queue and everybody's looking at their phone. Nobody's talking or interacting, but you don't just look around and look at the clouds. How many people look at the clouds and know the weather?
“I don't think it has changed or expanded. I think that the crisis actually highlighted a lot of problems that were already there; those that were easy not to look at, because we were really busy doing everything else. So maybe let's say, my kid is not interested in the great outdoors because we went to Yorkshire Sculpture Park and, you know, they didn't show an interest. So let's send them to a karate class and the music class, and something else class, and then the swimming pool, and then dinner, and then bed. I mean kids, they don't have this time to get bored anymore. I was told at breakfast 'get out of the house, I'll see you at dinner'. That's it. You have no choice. And if you're stabbing the stick in the ground for four hours, and then you actually notice these beetles around, and you notice there's a leaf you've seen before, or you'll notice something. Honestly, I even sometimes as an adult forget to do it because I work all the time and I'm just constantly doing something. And there was one moment where I sat at the allotment, outside in the spring, just potting on plants, and instead of doing the same thing I stopped. And rather than just kind of pulling my phone out to look on Facebook, I took time to just zone out for a minute to see what else was happening. I just sat and looked, and I just saw this little head of a mouse, just sticking from the stone, just looking at me for three seconds, and we just stared at each other, and I moved, then she ran away. But that's the thing that kids miss now. When you're standing in the queue now, COVID - massive queues everywhere, you look at the people in the queue and everybody's looking at their phone. Nobody's talking or interacting, but you don't just look around and look at the clouds. How many people look at the clouds and know the weather?”
It's very key isn’t it. I know most people that do food growing had that childhood. I had that childhood. I spent all my time in the woods. Looking at stuff; understanding how water works, seeing how plants grow. My parents were growers and it's part of my own heritage. And I think my confidence comes from that, and it affects my confidence in everything. To just try things and fail, and keep trying, and that's what I feel kids don't have enough of anymore.
“Because they are being cushioned. There's no failure, there's only lessons. I can say, 'oh well this year my corn failed'. Well no, it's a lesson for me to plant it earlier, or make sure that I protect it from frost, or something like that. I think that the crisis now has highlighted a lot of problems that we have, where we've tried to stick our head in the sand. Yes, it's easy to just go to Valley Organic and buy some nice organic veg if you can afford, or to go to Lidl if you can't afford, but really, at the end of the day, people need to just stop consuming so much, because we don't need that much. So Covid has done that for people. There was no inkling to buy because it's not available. People haven't had to work as much and people had time to see friends, be at home and chill more and benefit from it. And you have a better quality of life, because you don't need the massage, you don't need that yoga session, you don't need to go for an hour's run because you're stressed out of your head from sitting in front of the computer for a day. Maybe what we need to do is actually slow down a bit.”
What are your main ideas for impacting diversity and inclusivity in Calderdale in the future? This may or may not relate to your own work vocation or passion.
I think people need to just put themselves out of their comfort zone, and go and do other people's things.
“I think it's just engagement. I think people need to stop being shy, and take part in events, and take part in small things; small festivals, open gardens: try something new. I think the connections between people need to be reestablished, because we see each other as individuals, and almost like different islands. And even though you go to an event that might not be your cup of tea, you might find somebody who's also from Poland, or also is black, or something. I think that the people who are not middle class white, they don't want to do these things because they don't understand what's in there for them, and they may not see it as an opportunity to grow, and blend, and use the language well, which immediately makes, me personally, more approachable in other people's eyes. You find it funny or strange with the different ways to speak or behave, or dress, or eat different things. But you have to do it. It was the same thing when I was hanging out with the Arabic and Jewish community in Bradford . And, you know, we sat on carpets and ate with our hands, with pieces of bread. I thought, where's the cutlery? But then I thought it's not what I know, it's maybe what I'll learn, and actually I quite like it. So I think people need to just put themselves out of their comfort zone, and go and do other people's things.”
We should be changing our attitude constantly and taking responsibility. You know it's proven that you do more in your community when you work less. And I think that's interesting for COVID. I think over a period of time, people will have to work more locally, and the effort actually has to go into your local community more. And we are seeing that happen.
“We all need each other more and with COVID loads of people started having these neighborhood chats. My street now has a Whatsapp group. It started with shopping and people asking if anyone needs shopping dropping off when people go to Lidl. Whereas now people are sharing this and that, or you ask if someone can feed my cat as I'm going away for two days. And, the community started rebuilding and I only knew my two next-door neighbours and a couple of other people. But now, even though I don't hang out with these people for a cup of tea, it's nice to know what they need, and how I can help them.”
We're not separate islands.
I think that's what we don't really fully understand yet. We don't have to be having dinner with everybody, or always meeting up. Community is based on different types of relationships and support networks that suit the local purpose. I think some people I've spoken to are really disappointed that that's changed back after the first lockdown, but it hasn't changed back. Everything's a transition, so the minute a crisis happens next, those relationships and strategies are there, and we will expand them further.
“I don't think it goes back, you know. I think everybody learns from it a little bit, and I think everybody understands that, you know. We're not separate islands.”
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